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As events unfold from the National Assembly probes, president of the Civil Rights Congress, Malam Shehu Sani said former President Olusegun Obasanjo must be prosecuted or President Umaru Yar’adua should forget about fighting corruption. Sani spoke with Isa Sa’idu in Zaria. Excerpts:
As facts emerge from the National Assembly probe on illegalities allegedly committed by the former administration, what is the position of the Human Rights Congress? Each time there is a change of government, whoever takes the mantle of leadership must take stock of the assets, liabilities and problem inherited. In all parts of the world, where we have responsible governments, this has been the culture. In taking stock, one is simply laying a good foundation for himself and also informing the citizenry of what has become of their nation under the past government. Refusal to probe or take stock has its own consequences. In 1979, one of the greatest mistakes of Shehu Shagari’s government was its refusal to probe the then outgoing General Obasanjo’s administration. On Obasanjo’s exit, a glossy and rosy picture of the economy was given (from 1976 to 1979). Shagari refused to probe Obasanjo on the basis of the controversy that trailed his election and for need to show gratitude to Obasanjo. Shagari was an unwilling president, otherwise the country could have had the opportunity of knowing the true Obasanjo. It is now the same Obasanjo who from 1999 to 2007 pretended to be reforming the country. If Sahgari did not inherit a huge debt crisis, there wouldn’t have been austerity measures by Shagari’s administration. The austerity measures were clear indication that there was a problem before Shagari took over. If President Yar’adua is talking about seven-point agenda or vision 2020, it would simply be a mirage without Nigerians actually knowing what really went wrong in the Obasanjo regime of 1999 to 2007. I don’t believe in claim that probes distract a government. You can still go on with probe panels and still govern. It is not the ministers who head the probe panels; it is neither the permanent secretaries nor the president. In the interest of prosperity and for every incoming government to succeed, they must come out to say this is what happened. We have seen it clearly that it happens in other countries and that is why in countries like Zambia, President Chiluba is under going trial for corruption charges. In Peru, Abeito Pelomore is also undergoing trial for his atrocities while in office. Saharto of Indonesia was also undergoing trial before he died as a dictator in that country. The way forward for our country is for Yar’adua to muster courage and set up an independent judicial panel of inquiry that will be headed by a judge of the Supreme Court and should comprise of credible Nigerians who are of proven integrity. Those who are found guilty after such probe should be prosecuted and jailed if found guilty. If we have a probe panel that only ends up with tons of evidence of injustice, corruption, gross misconduct and atrocities committed by the past administration and this report is submitted to the president while the president simply shakes the hand of the panel chairman and he keeps the report to dust, then we are simply deceiving ourselves. A probe panel should end in prosecution, it must end in sanctions, and it is on the basis of that we can achieve something. If President Yar’adua refuses to prosecute Obasanjo, his former ministers and aids and all those who were involved in corrupt practices under president Obasanjo, there is no way Nigerians would support Yar’adua’s government because we are simply going to waste another eight years without doing anything. You seem to pin down every thing about the probes to Yar’adua but it is the National Assembly that initiated and is doing the probes. I did not give credit to Yar’adua. What I said was very clear, that if we are interested in addressing the injustices of the past, we must have a judicial commission of inquiry. A probe panel either set up by the legislature or executive. It must end in the judicial commission of inquiry. If those who are probed are aggrieved they can go to court to seek redress. We have the example of this in the past. All I am saying is that all evidence that will be obtained from the probe panel either in the House of Representatives or the Senate must end on the desk of the judicial commission of inquiry where people who were indicted will be brought to book and go to jail. If there is no jail at the end of a probe panel then that panel is of no importance at all. It is said that some members of the National Assembly undertaking these probes had requested for some privileges like plots. Don’t you think the probe itself is a kind of witch-hunt because some people were denied privileges? There is a saying in Hausa language that if you don’t know how to catch a thief, a thief will catch you. If Malam Nasiru el-Rufa’i knows that a request was made by the members of the National Assembly, why couldn’t he come out to tell Nigerians? Second, there is no law that stops any person from requesting a plot of land in FCT or any part of Nigeria to build a house or set up business. There is no morality for you being an FCT minister giving contract to unregistered companies. There is no morality in revoking lands and turning to give them to minister’s close friends and associates. There is no morality in revoking lands belonging to the PHCN and UBE and giving those lands to the people in position of power. There is no way we can justify a situation where an individual allocates lands 24 hours before he leaves power. There in no morality for a minister to simply not account for the billions of naira realised when the Abuja Games village was sold. Nobody says a minister should not own a plot of land but you must not use the privileges and opportunities of office to disenfranchise other people; to disobey court orders and behave as if you are God and trample upon the fundamental human rights of other citizens. What I am saying is that the likes of el-Rufa’i are individuals that were intoxicated by power. They lived under self-devotion. They miss-inform Obasanjo and it is very unfortunate for a man of Obasanjo calibre, a man who received the Biafran surrender, a man who handed over power in 1979 to civilian administration, a man who was seen as one of the moral voices in Africa and the whole world, could have descended to this level and allowed himself to be played around by people who were school children when he was even a head of state. If the likes of el-Rufa’i, Obasanjo are not brought to book, we should all forget about anti-corruption crusade. The arrest of Adenike Grange is not a serious fight against corruption. A serious war against corruption is when those people who violate other people’s rights in the name of demolition and other atrocities are brought to dock. That is when we would say we have zero tolerance on corruption. The likes of el-Rufa’i, Nkonjo-Eweala, Ezekweseli put many things into Obasanjo’s head. Obasanjo wanted to be in the good books of the Western world therefore he was deceived by the philosophy of reforms. In the name of reforms our lands were shared by the people in power. Our monies were looted and billions of naira wasted in the name of generating power. Billions of naira were used for the construction of Obasanjo’s library. You mentioned some of the legacies of Obasanjo which made some people to look up to him as a man of integrity. On the other hand you said he was deceived. I didn’t say Obasanjo has any integrity. He is a man who was obsessed by the ratings of the Western world governments and financial institutions and if you have passion for something then you are most likely to fall into the hands of fraudsters. Obasanjo is someone who wants to be recognised, who wants to be appreciated, and who wants to be praised by the Western world. Because of this, he had by his side fake Harvard-trained consultants and financial experts. Some of them come here paid salaries in dollars. Some claim to be moguls of the private sector. Some of them are ache-headed in capitalist neo-imperialist philosophies. He gathered those people and gave him the dosage of reforms that have not produced medical care in the health sector for the common man. Reforms in the transport sector that have not transformed to good roads. Reforms in the education sector which were not able to take the children of the common Nigerians to school. Reforms that did not touch any aspect of our lives, it simply remains on paper. The facts remain that Obasanjo was deceived by people he so much depended on. They instigated the dispute between him and Atiku. So much energy, resources went into the fight with Atiku and his attention was much there and behind him those people fueling the crisis. I have no doubt that president Obasanjo wherever he is must be regretting. That he doesn’t read papers was not true. When we were in prison, he used to read newspapers. Obasanjo used to have some credibility and that was why he was brought in 1979. It was clearly that he had destroyed himself. Those of us in the human rights community that used to give Abacha, Babangida gold medal for corruption, we are now forced to give it to Obasanjo. It is the first time we have government flagrantly violate court orders or reinterpret the judgment of the Supreme Court, dismiss trial judges or delay the execution of a Supreme Court judgment pretending to be waiting for another judgment from a High Court. The democracy which some of us have fought for was destroyed by the Obasanjo regime. Had the democracy worked, the issue of the common Nigerian problems could not have been now with the enormous resources Obasanjo had at his disposal during his eight years in office. The issues in the seven point agenda are still about roads, health care, the economy etcetera which we should have overcome since. Has Obasanjo not achieved anything? I have seen in some ones submission talking about the achievements of Obasanjo and he made mention of representation of women in government, he was talking of GSM and others. What we should look at clearly are that two things Obasanjo could have achieved; one to set a standard for leadership and good governance; second to use the enormous resources that we had through the oil windfall for the betterment of Nigerians. What happened from 1999 to 2007 was worse than what happened during the oil boom of the 70’s. By the time Obasanjo left government, a barrel of crude oil was around $90 but there was no appreciable impact on people’s lives. Don’t you think that it is business as usual even with this present administration? Some observers are of the opinion that it is now almost a year since the present administration took over power but it has nothing to show. Yar’adua has goodwill of a lot of Nigerians even though his election is still under serious contest. As I said earlier, goodwill doesn’t last long if it is not matched with performance. It will simply evaporate. It is clearly evident that sympathy and support for Yar’adua is gradually waning out. It is unfortunate for Yar’adua that Nigerians cannot wait for 2020 to have pipe borne water, electricity, good roads and security. Yar’adua should not deceive himself about 2020, he should utilise every second of his time in power to perform. The antecedence of Obasanjo’s government are still evident because it is still about so much talk from the presidential villa, it is still about so much debate on the budget and if we continue to move at this level, the goodwill Nigerians have on Yar’adua will decline and turn to anger. The earlier this issue of 2020 is done with the better for Yar’adua.
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